[Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:00:21] Meeting in 1'? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:00:27] aprox yes [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:00:27] heys sebas [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:00:41] spstarr_work: juts type "-" [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:00:44] Good, I'm on time then [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:01:10] spstarr_home: you in this case pull the widget out of the tabbar and put in the main applet layout [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:01:34] or, it could be done to pre select details and disable the 5 days button [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:01:49] oh hey, it's 9:01 [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:01:50] notmart: we can work out how that can happen [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:01:54] or, i could hide the tabs if there is only one page... [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:02:00] hey pinheiro btw :) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:02:01] notmart: that would be best [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:02:10] notmart: or a flag in widget [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:02:15] morning Chani :) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:02:20] to hide a tab or specific tab? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:02:20] Topic aseigo sets the channel topic to "Devel wiki @ http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/Plasma :: review board: http://reviewboard.vidsolbach.de :: 4.2 Planning meeting in progress!". [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:02:26] MEETING!!!!!! [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:02:27] Join toma has joined this channel (n=toma@unaffiliated/toma). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:02:32] * Chani waves to sebas [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:02:41] will add a function in the tabbar api [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:03:07] CMake Error at workspace/libs/plasma/CMakeLists.txt:105 (kde4_target_link_interface_libraries): Unknown CMake command "kde4_target_link_interface_libraries". [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:03:17] WHy would I get this error when trying to compile base? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:03:23] rendering for 45 minutes 30% done [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:03:31] this is a record [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:03:35] :) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:03:37] * aseigo notes that konvi's logging abilities could use some work. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:03:52] pinheiro: remembers me when i was playing with 3d studio on my 486 :D [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:04:05] sebas: oddness, looks like a cmake mess up =) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:04:14] bah. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:04:17] notmart: the widget is close to merge with trunk? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:04:17] ok, so who all is here for the meeting? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:04:23] well its couse im rendering the icon 20 times biguer [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:04:27] * sebas is here for the meeting [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:04:31] Nick spstarr_home is now known as spstarr. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:04:39] * pinheiro meeting 2 [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:04:44] spstarr [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:04:45] * toma lurks [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:05:01] * notmart alive [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:05:13] * loicmarteau too [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:05:18] sebas: so have you tried plasma-overlay? :) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:05:29] overlay? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:05:29] Chani: not yet [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:05:40] spstarr: my soc project [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:05:50] Chani: here it's been party all week, the whole city [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:05:59] haha. my mentor hasn't actualy tried my code. niice. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:06:00] Didn't get a lot done, and had a cold [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:06:08] party oooh. why? :) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:06:16] spstarr: will ask for some reviews in next days, don't know what things i did wrong, so could be some days or a ton of time :) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:06:24] four day marches and summer festivals [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:06:25] so ... the point/purpose of this meet up is to try and plan 4.2 a bit [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:06:34] the feature plan is here: http://techbase.kde.org/Schedules/KDE4/4.2_Feature_Plan#kdebase-workspace [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:06:39] Chani: I need to find out how to merge your git branch into mine [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:06:42] maybe take a moment to look through it first [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:06:49] sebas: it's in svn now too =) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:06:52] sebas: it's in svn now [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:06:56] sebas: kdebase/krunner/lock/ [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:06:56] notmart: i will begin to use the widget just need to see how the widget fits into theming the plasmoid [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:07:16] aseigo: Question on welcome plasmoid [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:07:17] my mentor isn't reading my blog either? ;) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:07:36] aseigo: perhaps we could show mini previews when you first load KDE 4.2 for the first time allowing the user to pick a default theme ? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:07:44] Ow, ok. Then my excuse is "cannot compile base atm" ;-) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:07:50] hehehe [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:07:53] w/o kidding, I'll look at it later today :) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:08:00] suuuure [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:08:03] Join mo has joined this channel (n=momomomo@p54BD603F.dip.t-dialin.net). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:08:03] so you click the 'preview' you want and plasma will use this theme [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:08:15] as excuses go that's a pretty good one [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:08:15] Join djouallah has joined this channel (n=djoualla@81.52.163.146). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:08:34] aaanyways. meeting. seriousness. :) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:08:55] * Chani tries not to giggle [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:09:06] Right. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:09:10] * spstarr would like to have thw weather plasmoid ready for KDE 4.2 more or less [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:09:18] spstarr: I don't think we should make the user pick a theme. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:09:30] will start to ask random questions on the todo list :) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:09:34] sebas: hm [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:09:35] It's possible to change, but not vital for anyone to use plasma. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:10:10] Collapsing applet: what is? applets that become kinda iconified? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:10:32] * sebas adds the Grid applet to IN PROGRESS btw. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:10:48] notmart: i was discussing that with pinda [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:11:00] it can go either way [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:11:24] ok.. so obviously there are a LOT of items on that list already [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:11:26] colapsed into an icon or a row with title [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:11:27] sebas: ah, good catch [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:11:38] i think the weather engine API is solid right now, the applet can determine the icons needed to load based on some keywords [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:11:43] nice, i think it could be a potential solution on all applets that behave totally crazy in the panel [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:11:51] i dont think i need to make the ions return which icons to load? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:12:05] and I have more items on paper here [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:12:15] spstarr: no ... (but can we suspend this conversation for a moment so we can continue the meeting? =) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:12:21] yes :) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:12:28] so, i'd like to propose the following quick agenda: [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:12:59] Join rabauke has joined this channel (n=kvirc@f048238247.adsl.alicedsl.de). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:13:00] 0) catch up on some infrastructure issues news [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:13:13] 1) discuss widgets and plasma (yes, i'm looking at you notmart ;) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:13:29] 2) go through the feature list, add missing items, prioritize what's there [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:13:38] first.. intrastructure news.. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:14:09] i've started working on a new set of website content... hopefully i'll be done by end of week and will move the new site in place of the old one (rejoice! =) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:14:20] yee [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:14:25] at that point i'll be opening up the backend to whomever in the project wants edit access [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:14:31] got a sneak preview of the website? =) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:15:01] Only for those working on it :) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:15:03] Quit SSJ_GZ has left this server (Remote closed the connection). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:15:12] i need to talk with someone about art for it, though .. i'd like to see it blend a bit nicer with kde.org and perhaps have some plasma-ish touches [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:15:18] Join SSJ_GZ has joined this channel (n=SSJ@host-84-9-147-151.dslgb.com). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:15:26] next, CHANGELOG [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:15:44] in workspace/plasma/design/ there is a CHANGELOG file [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:15:55] * pinheiro puts in is todo list (seting up a web team btw) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:16:12] i spent an hour or so last night (at somthing like 2am =P ) catching it up to date with our progress in trunk/ since 4.1 [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:16:16] aseigo: is that also for bugfixes? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:16:34] i'll be sending another email to the list about the changelog, but let's try to work together to keep it up to date... [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:16:38] Or, more generally, what should go in there? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:16:41] sebas: significant ones, yes.. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:16:50] i considered putting every BR in there .. but that's a hassle since: [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:16:53] * we close so many ;) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:16:54] Quit bgmiki has left this server (Remote closed the connection). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:17:18] yeah, what goes in a changelog? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:17:18] * a number of BRs never make it into a major release (yay for testers of trunk/!), so we'd need to sort through them [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:17:20] etc.. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:17:27] so what i've been doing is: [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:18:03] putting all new features in there [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:18:14] putting all significant fixes over the last release in there [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:18:40] fixing "Leaves" to "Leaves..." isn't significant, for example [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:18:53] crash fixes would be, visual glitches would be, etc.. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:19:02] generally "things that people would be interested in" [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:19:25] with the pace of plasma devel, we have sooo many changes that we really don't need to put everything in there imho .. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:20:04] :) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:20:06] i did think about trying to autogenerate it from svn commit msgs, but that would mean (besides writing or finding a suitable script) actually weeding out what we want in there (probably through a commit log tag like CHANGELOG?) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:20:07] if it's over 2-3 pages nobody would read it probably... [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:20:14] notmart: yeah [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:20:33] so .. let's try and use it =) it'll be useful for us all to keep track of what's changing where [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:20:46] notmart: it still extremely useful for writing release notes (which I happen to do regularly) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:20:46] and i'll try and catch things that don't make it into the CHANGELOG that should [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:21:14] should we add a commit number to each changelog ? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:21:17] review board: we still need to get mails going to the mailing list. i'm witing for david solbach to be around again before bugging him about it though [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:21:36] loicmarteau: i thought about that as well, but i don't think it's particularly useful tbh.. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:21:54] for easy tracking [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:21:56] loicmarteau: it could be useful for people trying to cherry pick patches to backport .... but a lot of the features span a large number of commits [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:22:07] yep youre right [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:22:14] oh yeah, I keep forgetting we have reviewboard [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:22:14] loicmarteau: the tooltips alredy are a couple dozen commits, for instance [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:22:35] does anyone know how to get post-review-plasma and git working together? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:22:36] and since span over a large number of commit a CHANGELOG keywod wouldn't work so well probably [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:22:43] the more rules we create for the changelog, the less people will actually use it. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:22:54] notmart: sebas: agreed on both counts [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:22:58] Chani: *shrug* =/ [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:23:07] final infrastructure comment, or rather question: should we have a separate mailing list for bugs? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:23:18] my concern is that traffic is high and that might turn some people off [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:23:21] hmmm. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:23:27] Chani: I had emailed about that to panel-devel some time ago [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:23:30] my opposite concern is that if they aren't on the mailing list, fewer people will see the reports ;) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:23:39] for the moment i have filter for that but perhaps it is a good idea [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:23:53] I'm filtering them into a subfolder, that works rather well [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:24:05] i filter bugs in a separate folder and often hundreds get accumulated before i decide to look at it... [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:24:08] sebas: same here [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:24:11] I think I'm in favour of separate MLs for bugs, for all lists. kopete did it a while ago and it's nice to be able to follow their chatter without havinga folder full of their bugs [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:24:42] notmart: same [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:24:51] Quit tkjacobsen has left this server ("Leaving"). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:24:51] aseigo: how about GNU ChangeLog format? :) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:25:03] if we had a separate ML I could still filter *that* into my bugs folder [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:25:41] I actually don't really care [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:25:58] it seems like a waste of bandwidth to be downloading all those bugs for projects other than plasma [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:26:21] ok... so .. we need to take care of that then [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:27:06] spstarr: again, not sure it fits plasma well =/ [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:27:19] so.. separate m/l then? any objections? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:27:29] about br my opinion is that we could perhaps make it more efficient [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:27:52] loicmarteau: how so? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:28:11] i have send a mail for that in panel-devel [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:28:12] fir me is the same, a separate one would be better for whose that starts contributing so yeah [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:28:27] add a faq when user choose to report a bug for plasma [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:28:54] never report crash without bt etc... [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:29:28] I would like a not in here to notify us of bugs [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:29:31] loicmarteau: that's something to talk about with the b.k.o maintainer(s) ... which i guess is clee right now [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:29:34] -not->bot [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:29:49] * aseigo would love to see an auto-matches for backtraces as well, but that's also a bit OT here [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:29:50] unless its too much traffic [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:29:57] spstarr: umm... that'd be a pretty noisy bot [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:30:00] ok, any more infrastructure issues or can we move on? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:30:17] not only for bt we can add specific stuff for plasma inside [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:30:25] Chani: maybe just new ones [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:30:42] hmm. so we have a design folder. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:31:02] and be able to update the faq in real time [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:31:06] is there any kind of format to the files in there? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:31:26] exemple for kubuntu package breakae : update faq remove aold packages [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:31:27] oh right, that was mentioned alreaey [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:31:38] somewhere... [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:31:47] btw, plasma on windows: http://www.uploadgeek.nl/files/zaddz3ovnq68ues3vcb.png [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:32:07] oh :) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:32:27] Chani: markdown [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:32:33] Chani: it's in the README [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:32:37] wonder how is the speed compared to x [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:32:54] oh. guess I should read it ;) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:33:13] wow. plasma is Taking Over The World ;) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:33:35] Chani: same thing we do everynight, pinky. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:33:51] ok, so moving on.. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:33:55] Widgets [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:34:02] notmart: i saw you blogged about making widgets for plasma [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:34:22] yeah, was thinking about it for a while and then couldn't resist [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:34:51] notmart: while i think it makes sense for things like a tab bar which has no real analog in QWidget, i'm highly concerned about things like pushbuttons [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:35:30] notmart: my concern is that we'll end up with a ton of code that poorly duplicates the QWidget analog (again =) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:35:36] The only part we cannot do with a QButton is animations, no? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:36:04] respecting the plasma theme [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:36:09] One of the goals of the WoC port was getting rid of our hand-rolled widgets, eh? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:36:13] sebas: right now, ys, but even that isn't written in stone.. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:36:17] sebas: correct [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:36:28] perhaps, but for simpler things i think we should have our own one [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:36:38] How about Plasma::Button extends QButton (and adds styling) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:36:43] pinheiro: the effort of doing that right is huge [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:36:46] QButtons look to traditional UI looking [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:36:49] So we could do away with a good stylesheet per theme [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:37:00] sebas: that makes more sense... [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:37:16] aseigo_yyc: i know im doing the inverse for amarok [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:37:16] And if we run into limitations, we whine into TT's bugthing [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:37:26] and that can be done 100% internally with very, very little code [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:37:29] ooh. yay stylesheets. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:37:42] i would never neither try to make things like comboboxes, textboxes or other huge things [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:37:51] And it's very easy styling, good for artwork peeps [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:37:57] be nice to not have kde-themed buttons in hte middle of plasma [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:37:58] but a button i think it's a thing used so much that it must look perfect [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:38:08] Chani: exactly! [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:38:19] notmart: sure, let's just not re-make our mistakes [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:38:28] If I look at SUSE's installer, that's pretty cool and done wiht stylesheets AFAIK [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:38:38] spstarr: so we stylesheet-ify them [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:38:42] and honestly, we'll always have some (like comboboxes, etc =) .. though even those could be manageable with styling the native widgets [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:38:56] don't think stylesheets are flexible enough [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:39:06] notmart: if it's not perfect, then it should be fixed in Qt so we can make it perfect? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:39:07] i thought we were going to utilize Qt Stylesheets in widgets or gained this ability when WOC came [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:39:14] i agrea with notmart [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:39:27] What is missing in stylesheets? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:39:55] we're not a window manager, and we're not a widget toolkit... [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:40:00] we could maybe try to subclass for instance the button and reimplement paint to use svg themes [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:40:11] I've got reservations, because it clashes with so many concepts (WoC, stylesheet support, KStyle, ...) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:40:52] Chani: exactly [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:41:01] notmart: that could work, yes [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:41:14] on the other end ist prety hard to make the widget theme match the plasma theme [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:41:34] Join onestone has joined this channel (n=onestone@unaffiliated/onestone). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:42:13] and im prety happy plasma theming is way more simple and flexible than qt themeing [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:42:18] if i understood correctly what bibr was saying to me at tokamak they also will have a set of pure qgraphicwidgets and woc was more of a legacy thing [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:43:38] notmart: the other major issue with the approach being taken at the moment is that these widgets do not, at all, follow the same API as the other widgets [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:43:52] notmart: the other widgets are, quite purposefully, simplified wrappers around "full powered" widgets [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:44:01] this is for scripting and security reasons [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:44:52] notmart: so if tabbar does indeed go into libplasma, we'll need to make the API consistent there (probably by providing a simplified API subclass) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:45:06] hrm. it also breaks the nativeWidget() pattern completely =/ [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:45:24] the functions it has now are mostly identic to qtabbar one [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:46:28] oh, and it uses the button i did, so what i must do? make a simpler one private? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:46:30] Join josebur_ has joined this channel (n=josebur@24-216-187-71.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:48:28] notmart: that's a really good question ... =) we need both a complex API ("hidden" behind nativeWidget) and the standardized simple API [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:48:59] notmart: it would be very interesting to see if we can't get the same thing out of a subclass QTabBar with styling thrown in. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:49:32] i think it's very very limiting [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:49:49] maybe i'm not very balanced and too skewed on the look side but i really can't not hate the proxy widgets, can't say why but i feel it really wrong [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:49:51] at the extreme one could even implement a "proxy" QStyle for plasma which would render certain widgets with the plasma theme and leave the rest to the current theme.... [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:49:56] Quit josebur has left this server (Remote closed the connection). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:50:16] me winces [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:50:19] notmart: from an integration POV they are exactly what we need. duplicating all those features ourselves is stupid [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:50:30] all this proxying does unsettle me a little [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:50:45] things like the click text in line and text edits ... [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:51:04] we'll end up with huge gobs of code (again) in libplasma that have nothing to do with the goal of plasma [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:51:25] and which will, almost by definition, be out of step with the real widgets they are mimicing [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:52:02] it's completely possible to get the look with a fraction of the code by simply styling / painting the qwidgets [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:52:08] if plasma restarts after I quit it via kquitapp, does that mean it crashed or is it a bug that it restarts? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:52:22] rabauke: that it crashed [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:52:23] rabauke: it crashed [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:52:24] complex things like things with keyboard input no, but really hmm, aah [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:53:02] ok, then it crashes for me in 99% of the times I use kquitapp. I'll try to get some output out of gdb [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:53:13] hmm. peaking of keyboard input, maybe I should bug bibr for an update on those shortcut bugs [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:53:30] yeah, plasma crashes on quit a lot. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:53:37] this also leads to plasma restarting, if shutting down kde takes too lon, e.g. if amarok fades out [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:53:59] ok... is that all we have to say about widgets? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:54:15] looks like we need a meeting just on widgets :) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:54:21] yeah [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:54:57] hopefully we don't need a whole meeting on it =) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:55:19] it's pretty simple, really: don't rewrite Qt on top of Qt by rewriting widgets as QGraphicsItems [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:55:30] the problem is that i really don't agree, sorry [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:55:56] 100s (or more realistically 1000s) of LOC doing that is a waste of time, bloats plasma and will fill it with bugs [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:56:06] notmart: were you not around for 4.0 and all the bugs and misfeatures in the widgets? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:56:06] notmart: why? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:56:11] if having a graphics view is only to embed qt widgets on it i don't see the point of having a graphics view in the first place [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:56:27] notmart: is that really what we're doing? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:56:42] * aseigo looks at plasma, looks at notmart's statement, looks back at plasma [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:56:55] ok, i'm exagerating, but yeah... [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:57:14] so, yes, widgets are not the centre of plasma. not even close. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:57:27] they are a necessary bit, of course [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:57:36] and the stated problem is: they don't look enoug like plasma [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:57:47] a solution is: just write the painting bits [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:58:00] aseigo: i remember discussing that with you back when plasma was just a baby [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:58:11] the problem is that wen i see a qt widget in plasma it looks complety out of place I ask can i theme the widget with css? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:58:12] aseigo: the theming of pushbuttons, etc on a plasmoid [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:58:18] i could try for the button [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:58:22] the benfits to the solution is: we don't maintain a widget library (fewer bugs, more code sharing, 100% feature parity) and we still get what we want [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:58:37] pinheiro: we've been talking about theming it with css for hte last... half hour [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:58:40] pinheiro: yes, you can ... we can also reimplement the painting part only [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:58:44] pinheiro: stylesheets == css [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:59:17] can I do do the fancy animation i can do with plasma? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:59:25] notmart: yes, you'll find it's a lot, lot easier. and with the Plasma widget API we can hide it 100% (use Plasma::QPushButton internally in Plasma::PushButton, nativeWidget() still returns QPushButton) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:59:32] pinheiro: yes [Sun Jul 20 2008] [18:59:42] cool [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:00:17] ok, let's get to the meat of this meeting (meat, meet, stupid english) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:00:18] the tab bar in qwidgets is really complex, and ugly, i lost so much time on writing a qstyle that themes it decently that i think we really need a simpler thing btw [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:00:35] notmart: the tab bar i'm on the fence with for that reason.. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:01:19] the button yes, i will try to make one subclass of a pushbutton [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:02:01] notmart: although one could do a Good Enough job pretty easily with straigth QTabBar and a paintEvent implementation [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:02:16] Quit mikkoc has left this server (Network is unreachable). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:02:26] * aseigo notes there are methods like tabRect ( int index ) const that would make it less insane [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:03:27] Quit mo has left this server ("Leaving"). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:03:33] Join _Brandon_ has joined this channel (n=Carlo@85-18-136-105.fastres.net). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:03:41] * pinheiro notes that he would like to see the replacement of wallpapers issue adressed 2 in 4.2 [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:04:06] maybe move onto next topic? widgets just ate the whole meeting ;) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:04:19] pinheiro: You mean fallback to default wallpaper if the file isn't there anymore? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:04:25] yeah, sorry [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:04:49] yeap sebas the problem that keeped us from removing 5 and merging 5 more in 4.1 [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:04:58] (but i'll return on that:) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:06:12] so ... 4.2 features. the real point of this meeting ;) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:06:16] yes. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:06:20] features. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:06:37] * Chani drags her head out of kconfiggroup [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:06:55] aseigo_yyc: proposed that plasma should make a copie of the wallpapers used into the /home/user..... [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:06:56] http://techbase.kde.org/Schedules/KDE4/4.2_Feature_Plan#kdebase-workspace [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:07:03] so we have a biiig long list up on techbase [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:07:09] pinheiro: yes, we should do that ... [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:07:18] pinheiro: maybe i should add that to the feature list? ;) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:07:25] yep [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:07:26] As to the Grid (sorry, have to leave in some minutes), I think I can get it into workable state quite quickly. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:07:31] s [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:07:45] Quit SSJ_GZ has left this server (Remote closed the connection). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:07:48] There's one issue keeping me from it: 80% of the applets don't paint inside it (but they seem to get loaded correctly) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:08:27] Join SSJ_GZ has joined this channel (n=SSJ@host-84-9-147-151.dslgb.com). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:08:27] e.g., putting a analog clock into it works, putting the battery into it leaves it 'empty [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:08:59] Then some magic with resizing and re-ordsering is needed, but not critical [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:09:24] Nick twolfy_ is now known as twolfy. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:10:13] sebas: the question is how the user will drag applet in it [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:10:20] and move them [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:10:33] sebas: can you pop that onto the feature list? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:10:40] loicmarteau: moving them is not critical (although it could be done similar to the panel) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:10:44] I guess I was supposed to make kwin capable of focusing panels. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:10:51] aseigo: I've put it there already. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:11:00] should I add that to hte feature list (and assume someone will tell me how to do it?) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:11:07] I'll have another look into it later today and bug the list [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:11:10] Quit ninjaslim has left this server ("Lost terminal"). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:11:28] Quit SSJ_GZ has left this server (Remote closed the connection). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:12:09] Chani: I think so. If you don't succeed, you remove it or bug someone [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:12:15] Chani: yes, that would be good. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:12:23] Chani: and it won't be hard, i don't think.. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:12:38] I have a bad habit of not doing things I plan to do (unless soc forces me to) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:13:07] on random features: a thing i would do is to make the panel configuration thing more usable/intuitive [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:13:36] and for that i would need some input from usability people because i have no clue what to do :) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:13:44] aseigo: the runtime documentation for krunner ... does that include to have some hints how to actually use a certain runner? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:13:57] We have like 20 runners, and they say nothing about how you use them [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:14:00] * Chani wonders whether this would count as a plasma or kwin feature... [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:14:42] notmart: yay thank you :) that was on my list of things-to-ask-someone-to-do [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:15:06] * Chani needs some usability input for soc too [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:15:35] * sebas is off for dinner now, thanks everyone! [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:15:50] Join SSJ_GZ has joined this channel (n=SSJ@host-84-9-147-151.dslgb.com). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:16:13] sebas: that's correct [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:16:17] sebas: same for engines [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:16:18] sebas: byeee :) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:16:24] Ok, cool. :* [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:16:27] sebas: bye [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:16:27] Chani: you said you had a list of features? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:16:31] * aseigo waves to sebas [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:16:35] Join brun0_ has joined this channel (n=brun0_@che78-2-82-227-240-106.fbx.proxad.net). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:16:36] right right [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:16:45] I'm still figuring out which are already on techbase [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:17:00] umm... I don't see anything on there about panel->desktop dragging [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:17:21] it's one of those little fill-in-the-corners features I'd really like to see happen [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:17:23] Chani: right, that needs to be added [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:17:40] any volunteers? :) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:18:02] as should "drop indicator in Panel" [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:18:19] Chani: you can just put my name to things and we can figure out delegation later [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:18:35] oh yeah, wasn't someone working on visual.. feedback.. oh right, we got that thing where the applet pops out of the desktop.. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:18:38] mmkay [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:19:04] Part toma has left this channel ("Ooh, look, a shiny object..."). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:19:58] Quit SSJ_GZ has left this server (Remote closed the connection). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:20:12] Join SSJ_GZ has joined this channel (n=SSJ@host-84-9-147-151.dslgb.com). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:21:07] so er, meeting over? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:21:20] hmm [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:21:22] spstarr: your applet isn't on there [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:21:34] I need to pu my keyboard accessibility plans up there [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:21:34] this is the point where people are supposed to be chiming in with their feature adds ;) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:21:46] gonna add that when i get back from some stuff i have to do [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:21:53] * aseigo quickly makes coffee [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:21:58] I don't see zui stuff... [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:22:00] aseigo: but this will depend on how this widget stuff plays out [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:22:01] spstarr: ok, good [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:22:05] Chani: yes, zui stuff isn't there really. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:22:07] as it directly impacts me ;-) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:22:13] oh, yeah [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:22:18] spstarr: hrm? how so? isn't having the weather widget a target feature for 4.2? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:22:20] also, appletbrowser needs love. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:22:26] toolbox moving/positioning/etc? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:22:32] aseigo: the mockup uses that new tab bar widget [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:22:35] Chani: there's at least one item for applet browser there, but nothing about the listing yes [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:22:42] that delete button I added needs to be less surprising somehow. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:22:44] my personal plans is to continue merging the looks of plpasma theme and oxygen so they look difrent but the same [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:22:47] spstarr: that's irrelevant to "should the applet be a target feature for 4.2" ;) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:22:53] listing? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:22:56] pinheiro: cool =) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:22:58] i want it for KDE 4.2 for sure [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:23:17] Chani: the list of applets (e.g. better visual grouping? cleaner code?) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:23:23] spstarr: ok, so it needs to go onto the feature list [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:23:25] we've had the engines since 4.0 baking in kdebase happily [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:23:29] oh [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:23:56] I'd also like to see the ability to add panels/activities from there, I think. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:24:08] * spstarr logs in [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:24:21] another random thing i want to do for 4.2 is some tweaks to PanelSvg class [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:24:21] grr. I hate mosquitoes. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:24:43] Chani: +1 [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:24:53] oh, and that "add panel" contextmenu action... I don't like it. I want it to not be hardcoded. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:25:47] added to page [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:26:37] ok im off shopping, will read /scrollback when i get back :) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:26:55] * Chani looks at the code and wonders if it's actually worth it [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:26:59] don't know if comments from non-developers are appriciated but I'll try ^^: [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:26:59] shouldn't the ability to move icons around in a folderview and save their position be in the feature list? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:26:59] also what about the folderview containment (related to wallpaper rendering) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:27:02] spstarr: cool [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:27:02] Quit rabauke has left this server ("KVIrc 3.4.0 Virgo http://www.kvirc.net/"). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:27:12] friedreb: that's almost a bug fix, but yes. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:27:28] friedreb: folderview containment is already done in 4.1 .. wallpaper rendering is the wallpaper plugin entry [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:27:29] if we could add new panels from appletbrowser, then there wouldn't be a need for a hardcoded acton in defaultdesktop [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:27:32] why not make applet or plasmoid list just like system settings ? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:27:48] friedreb: please add the "save icon positioningin folderview" to the list (you can assign to me for now) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:27:58] where is fredrikh? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:27:59] Yagami: that's a possibiity, yes [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:28:11] Chani: yeah, that makes a lot of sense [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:28:22] so ... "Applet browser UI rewrite"? =) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:28:28] hehehe [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:28:35] preeetty much [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:28:35] Join tmske has joined this channel (n=thomas@d51A529B6.access.telenet.be). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:29:07] aseigo: could the actual code of systemsettings be used , just directed to show plasmoid list ? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:29:36] should we rewrite some existing c++ applets in python ? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:30:13] Join mikkoc has joined this channel (n=mikko@host147-83-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:30:25] Yagami: probably... see systemsettings/kicongrouppage.h [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:30:45] loicmarteau: we need to get the scripting in general sorted out a bit more first i thin =) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:30:56] for that delete-all button... I don't think it can be removed because it's still possible to lose plasmoids and not be able to reach their delete button, but I haven't thought of a way for it to choose one to delete that's not random (and therefore even more surprising htan removing all of them). hmm. maybe if it chose the one with hte highest id, assuming it was the newset. *shrug* [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:30:57] aseigo: added [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:30:58] not ready for 4. 2 ? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:31:02] * aseigo would rather see existing widgets that can be rewritten in ecmascript in any case [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:31:36] and that's not particularly somethign we can put on the feature list.. if we can come up with specific examples, that'd be better =) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:32:08] Chani: maybe just list them all and perhaps we could make some magical "highlight a given plasmoid on the canvas" feature =) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:32:17] (so as you mouse over an item in the list, it highlights) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:32:43] or we could actually, you know, make it work properly so that we don't need that ever =) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:32:53] * aseigo hates working around bugs like that [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:33:03] 1) scary! 2) where would the list go, would it popup when you click hte delete button? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:33:09] hehe, or that. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:33:23] oh btw [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:33:33] Join bendie has joined this channel (n=benno@83-221-75-61.dynamic.primacom.net). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:33:33] the problem is when the plasmoid is not in the screen :p [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:33:37] Join wirr__ has joined this channel (n=wirr@i53870E6C.versanet.de). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:34:19] as an accessibility thing, I think it'd be a nice option to highlight the keyboard-active applet. however, it would show visually that shortcut issue where we're often unable to know that the user clicked a different applet [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:34:25] aseigo: you prefer ecmascript than pyhton for plasmoid ? is there a technical stuff behind this ? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:34:50] loicmarteau: yes. no requirement for external runtime, easier to maintain security boundaries [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:34:57] ok [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:35:29] and we want to encourage people to do the right things as well, and that's "write using ecma script". the other languages are nice for people who wish to use them, but ecma script is really more central to the plasma goals [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:35:42] so the idea is at long term to script the most possible plasmoid ? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:36:23] existing plasmoid too [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:37:31] some of the existing ones could be easily redone in ecmascript, yes [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:37:36] ok [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:37:44] * aseigo adds the new ecma script engines to the list [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:37:56] Chani: perhaps we could just show the applet handle? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:37:58] plasmoid in panels.... :p [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:39:01] yes, showing the applet handle think would be good [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:39:20] oh, but if it's locked? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:39:28] i dont see the use case for that [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:39:37] notmart: we can show it without the buttons? =) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:39:45] if a user want to remove a plasmoid he can remove it directly with the handle ?! [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:39:46] yeah [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:39:46] aseigo , how about the zui and diferent activities also affect the windows ? i mean change activity also changes windows ? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:39:58] for me the problem is with hidden plasmoid [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:40:04] aseigo: to show that it's active? hmmmm. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:40:31] Join k3ks has joined this channel (n=k3ks@X7dbf.x.pppool.de). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:40:33] Yagami: that's not 4.2 material [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:40:36] aseigo: that could work, but could also result in "the applethandle won't unhover!" bugreports..? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:40:44] aseigo: speaking of the applet handle, was there a final decision on the current approach vs the window decoration of qgraphicswidgets? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:40:58] aseigo also , if the panel ever becomes autohide , how will the systray become ? i mean , the systray is always on screen ( because of it being a hack ) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:40:59] i.e. can be done or not? wat was the problem? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:41:04] wait, I just got features crossed in my head [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:41:05] Chani: that's why we can close bug reports ;) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:41:10] remind me, what are we talking about? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:41:26] notmart: not yet ... we need to talk with bibr about window deco issue smore [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:41:33] Yagami: yeah, don't remind me =P [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:42:20] any more obvious obmissions? otherwise, i'd like to move to discussing what the key goals should be [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:42:21] Quit mrudolph has left this server (Remote closed the connection). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:42:25] (and wrap this up) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:42:27] aseigo: also , the zui seems to be missing a "remove activity" [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:42:34] Yagami: only in the ui [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:42:48] aseigo: ok [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:42:57] ah... "expand cashew on zoom out" [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:43:01] that's missing [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:43:23] someone on bko wanted panels that windows can cover (no struts, I guess). we are planning to implement that, right? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:43:32] should also be found a way to reposition it to not be under a panel also when zoomed out [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:43:36] oh, yes, all that zui stuff is missing [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:43:59] * aseigo added that one now [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:44:23] notmart: that's solved by "expand cashew on zoom out" ... the idea is to make a toolbar thingy at the bottom of the contianment when zoomed out [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:44:46] oh [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:44:49] oh oh [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:44:49] Chani: do you want to add a line item for 3rd level zooming as per your suggestion last night? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:44:50] aseigo: how about adding an wallpaper to the zui when it is zoomed out ? that checker box paiting doesnt really look good [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:44:57] and would be on canvas or a window? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:45:05] how are we going to handle panel-avoidance while zoomed out? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:45:22] Yagami: would have to be really subtle, otherwise it'll look even worse [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:45:32] ah, so .. that.. yeah [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:45:35] I get really annoyed that my first activity mostly disappears under my vertical panel when I zoom out [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:45:48] i had a realy nifty idea for that efect aseigo_yyc [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:45:49] and dashboardview only shows me stuff zoomed-in [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:45:57] anything is beter than the cheker [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:46:05] plain white isn't better ;) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:46:08] shrinking the whole view to not clash under panels? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:46:25] aseigo: sure , but maybe something like skydomes ( i mean , special wallpapers with special sizes and very subtle , could be part of the plasma theme ) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:46:26] perhaps a stupid question but why panel are not dependent of activities ? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:46:28] Quit wirr_ has left this server (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:46:34] a bit rude, but.. :) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:46:34] notmart: yes, probably [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:46:49] Join aleXXX has joined this channel (n=alex@88-134-156-23-dynip.superkabel.de). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:46:52] it'd be less bad if I could grab the canvas and move that ctmt into view, but since it's at 0,0 I can't pull it any further or I'd start showing panelcontainmentss [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:46:55] hi [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:47:11] loicmarteau: to my understanding , the panel is not part of the desktop , but another container , so it isnt affected by the desktop container zui ( right aseigo ? ) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:47:22] Chani: we'll want to make containments movable anyways.. only thing is that we need to make them non-overlapping [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:47:33] hmm [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:47:35] hi aseigo :-) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:47:37] Chani: that's the only reason i haven't done that yet.. movable for groupign [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:47:38] aleXXX: yo yo [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:47:51] oy oy ;-) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:47:52] Yagami: right [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:47:59] Quit randomguy3 has left this server ("Konversation terminated!"). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:48:04] crap, I lost track of what I'm supposed to be adding [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:48:16] do you know anything about that strange krunner_DEPENDS line I removed ? (email yesterday) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:49:32] aleXXX: no idea.. saw the commit though [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:49:34] not sure plain white is worst ;) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:49:47] pinheiro: it resulted in bug reports, so from my perspective it is [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:49:47] aseigo: could some simple animation be done when changing activities ? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:50:06] aseigo: how about keyboard shortcuts for changing activities ? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:50:12] Yagami: like a zoom or pan? yes... i have a patch for portial zoom animtions, but QGV is just pathetically bad at it. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:50:16] Yagami: already there [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:50:30] did anybody have problems today building kdebase/workspace/plasma/, because of something (krunner ?) not yet being built ? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:50:33] aseigo: and how about a plasmoid to show and change activities ( like a pager that could be set on the panel ? ) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:50:56] aseigo: i have a big list of usuability "how abouts" for the zui :) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:51:15] aseigo: since like i told you earlier , i am a big believer of the zui and am using it alot [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:51:22] random idea: toolbox draggable around? (not that would be overly useful and just around on the edges of the contanment) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:52:30] Quit seezer has left this server (Remote closed the connection). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:52:39] Join seezer has joined this channel (i=seezer_u@roath.org). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:53:01] ohcrap [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:53:02] Yagami: would be a good idea (pager like thing) ... i'm not willing to do it myself for 4.2 though .. sooo.. =) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:53:07] alost forgot: dbus interface [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:53:11] notmart: if you're willin to take that one on, you bet [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:53:40] Chani: oh shit, right. that MUST go on there [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:53:44] * Chani wuold like to be able to manipulate applets over dbus, and then have a runner that presents an easier interface to that [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:54:07] aseigo: can try, i'm very unsure, on the toolbox my priority is to make it not look cutted when is moved down ant a top panel is not 100% [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:54:10] Chani: yeah [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:54:27] and if i'll spare some time i'll try that :) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:54:29] amn. laptop mouse is going again. paste is really hard [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:54:37] aseigo: .... we can make a deal ... i promise to learn how and do it , if you do something for me in kde 4.2 :) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:54:44] notmart: that's more of a problem with netwm extended struts of course =) but yeah.. would nice to fix that... please put that on the feature list =) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:54:47] cool notmart [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:54:58] oki [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:55:01] Yagami: i'm already doing a lot for you in 4.2 ;-P why, what were you thinking? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:55:34] aseigo: after making windows respect the zui ! the zui is complete , and will dominate the world ! [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:55:49] aseigo: in fact ,if you do that for 4.2 , i promise to do alot more stuff for the zui [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:56:31] er, what? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:57:14] oh wow, I fucked p the formatting [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:57:31] let's try this again... [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:57:39] aseigo: by the way , i think it should be done as quick as possible , because if not, most people will not realize how great the zui is [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:58:05] Join ninjaslim has joined this channel (n=sabeeh@ool-43544a41.dyn.optonline.net). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:58:24] Yagami: wait, are you expecting actual windows to zoom out with plasma? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:58:43] chani , no , but change on the desktop [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:58:47] Chani: example : [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:58:50] ohhh. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:59:30] makes perfect sence to me Yagami [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:59:38] it'll end up being the other way around. you'll be able to tie activities to virtual desktops, then when you switch virtual-desktops you'lll get a different activity as well as a different set of windows [Sun Jul 20 2008] [19:59:40] Chani: i am on the internet activity : i am chatting with you here , or on kopete or something. i change to the music activity ( where i have my now listening and lyrics plasmoids ) and i see kopete and konversation still ?? no , i wanna see amarok and my music folders [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:00:04] Chani: that is the problem [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:00:07] back in two seconds :) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:00:10] Chani: it should be the other way around [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:00:20] Chani: it should be the zui bossing kwin , not kwin bossing the zui [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:00:39] * Chani still doesn't really groke why these things were separate from the beginning [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:00:55] 7me :) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:01:13] having both virtual-desktops *and* activities kinda confuses me. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:01:29] oh hey [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:01:34] Chani: think of it as this : virtual desktop are virtual viewports , and activities are multi desktops [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:01:34] totaly [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:01:42] a feature I'd really like to see: applet snapping [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:01:54] there is no activity without windows and all windows are about one activity [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:01:54] Join bgmiki has joined this channel (n=mi@233-221.static.ikomline.net). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:01:56] I know we're not a window manager, but it'd be raelly nice to have [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:02:28] aseigo: Chani if you want , i can write a structured report about the way i see it should be [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:02:31] Quit anoever has left this server. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:02:57] no activity without windows? /me alsways has at least one blank virtual-desktop [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:03:05] Chani: sure , in this current state , calling it an activity is actually wrong , since no activity is changed [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:03:24] Chani: yep , and that black virtual desktop is doing what ? nothing , hence no activity :) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:03:34] it's letting me see plasma properly [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:03:45] and it's a place to start new stuff [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:04:08] Chani: but i am not meaning that activities have to have windows all the time , i am just saying that activities are completly tied to the windows , in a workflow sense of things [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:04:12] Join funkyou has joined this channel (n=janm@e179137033.adsl.alicedsl.de). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:04:41] Chani: i even have alot of usuability examples of it [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:04:49] Chani: i am thinking about this since 1998 ! [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:05:57] oh hmm [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:06:22] is the panel going to get applethandles when the configurator is out? so that I can access settings without rightclick? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:06:43] and should I put that on the feature plan? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:06:53] one idea for the panel , it should have separators ( kinda like separators on the toolbars ) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:07:04] soooooooooo is the meeting terminated ? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:07:15] it seems to have been derailed [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:07:17] so one could add a little space or a little separator between diferent applets [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:07:35] hum...sorry if i am derailing it [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:07:47] i will shut up now, only respond when asked :) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:07:57] Chani: need to work that out more i think [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:08:04] sorry, had a real life event to deal with [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:08:14] ahh [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:08:21] seems like everyone else has wandered off anyways [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:08:31] except Yagami and i :) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:08:36] Chani: they are different things because the desktop and the window manager have traditionally not worked together at all beyond "we are now on virtual desktop N" [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:08:45] Chani: it'll take time to build those bridges, which never existed [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:08:59] anyways.. ok, so .. assuming we've added all those items.. we have a more or less complete list [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:09:34] should i add "let windows cover panel" to hte feature list? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:09:43] perhaps i have some question about plasmoid in panel but... [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:10:01] sorry for the noise, will plasma lib be move kdelibs ? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:10:16] oh! I keep forgetting I wanna highlight hte active containment [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:10:27] I can never tell who I'm going to zoom in to... [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:10:42] * aseigo adds a 'priority features' section [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:10:47] except... nevermind, you can't change it without clicking the zoomin button any more [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:10:50] Chani: are you adding that now, or? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:10:56] no [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:11:40] ok, good. i'm sorting things [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:11:44] dont' edit for a few mintes =) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:12:07] maybe I'll do it as part of the "show which applet's gonna get keyboard shortcuts" thing... except I wonder if the keyboard shortcuts could end up going to a non-active containment... huh [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:12:41] no wait, hte definition of active containment is hte one the view's got [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:12:42] Chani: we have a problem with that right on kde 4.1 [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:12:50] so it'll always be the same, that's good [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:13:01] Chani: switching activities on key shortcuts only works if the focus is on the desktop [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:13:14] Yagami: yes, they are not global shortcuts. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:13:34] I didn't want to pollute the shortcut-space any more than necessary [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:13:45] I have a solution in mind, but I want to think about it some more [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:14:04] Join zce has joined this channel (n=zce@189.101.239.127). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:14:06] so, keyboard shortcuts may change somewhat in september [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:14:35] oh wow, it's 11:30 and I haven't had breakfast [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:14:37] again [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:14:37] Quit jazka has left this server ("(*^ー゜)/"). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:14:56] * Chani is going to eat now. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:15:03] Join jazka has joined this channel (n=jazka@line-6275.dyn.kponet.fi). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:15:07] ok.. done [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:15:12] to me new things don't come to my mind now, probably in the next days i'll have things to add to the list [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:15:15] alright.. will upload and send log to list [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:15:25] Quit ereslibre has left this server (Remote closed the connection). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:15:59] Part friedreb has left this channel. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:17:18] Quit djouallah has left this server ("Leaving"). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:18:40] size in panel stuff ? :p [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:20:44] loicmarteau: ah that reminds me, that I wanted to ask, if it's supported that an applet can resize itself in the panel [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:20:45] ? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:21:35] boom1992: it can, it's searching for troubles but can :) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:21:47] that make the cpu boom :p [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:22:07] you can't resize it with resize() [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:22:09] na [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:22:17] notmart: what is the way to resize it then? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:22:26] * boom1992 needs it for quicklaunch =) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:22:27] setting maximum and minimum sizes [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:22:35] ahh =) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:22:40] ok I will try soonish again [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:22:41] :) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:23:20] look at the analog clock code [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:23:37] or battery [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:23:39] okidoki thx :) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:23:42] hmm. would it be possible, someday, to have a "save defaults" button in plasmoid configs? kinda like in k3b... [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:23:55] more of the digital one, the analog clock sizing is managed down in applet [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:24:07] Quit _the_p has left this server (Remote closed the connection). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:24:15] it kinda sucks that every time I remove and add a plasmoid it'd got factory-defaut settings [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:25:24] be nice if, say, every time I add an analog clock it had 'show seconds' enabled without me having to do it. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:25:56] agree [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:26:17] otaly [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:26:24] totaly [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:26:27] hmm where is the rss-now applet located? - can't find it in kdeplasma-addons and kdebase/workspace/plasma [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:26:48] or, closed applets configs to be stored somewhere else, maybe in another config file and when opening again an applet pick a config from the pool of the closed applets [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:27:01] Quit ninjaslim has left this server (Connection timed out). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:27:30] notmart: well actually.... I'm planning to implement saving-out containments for the screensaver, since it doesn't have the zui [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:28:12] ok, new mailing list requested [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:28:43] Chani: nice idea =) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:29:01] * aseigo ponders a nice way to do that.. hum hum [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:29:04] :) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:29:49] somewhere in that applet's global settings you'd need to write out a section with the defaults (or at least the changed ones) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:30:32] notmart: well the resizing works now, but the applet is going over another applet then :/ [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:30:40] hmm, but changing hte defaults... would that affect applets that had been left on defaults? should it? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:30:46] and layouting inside the applet seems broken then.. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:31:07] in the panel? applets overlapping? [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:31:13] aah, shouldn't happen [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:31:33] * Chani mutters [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:31:39] notmart: mmh yes... [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:31:51] pete does my laundry for me *one* time, and one of my favourite socks vanishes... [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:32:03] socks never dare to vanish when *I* do laundry [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:32:35] (seriously. when I lived alone I didn't lose a single sock) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:32:46] notmart: ah works now with setMinimumSize [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:32:50] Quit mikkoc has left this server (Connection timed out). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:32:52] :) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:32:56] but with resize it's overlapping [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:33:00] but minor thing :) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:35:53] * aseigo recruits Chani to do his laundry then, because he's crazy bad at losing socks [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:36:07] boom1992:trust me dont call resize :p [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:36:37] :D [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:37:35] Quit mutlu_inek|gone has left this server (Remote closed the connection). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:37:41] boom1992: i have tested for you, and have to deal with at least 5 different bugs reports whit it [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:37:56] -whit +with [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:38:02] 03lappelhans * r835522 10plasma/trunk/playground/base/plasma/applets/quicklaunch/quicklaunchApplet.cpp: Mostly fix Quicklaunch-Applet [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:38:40] huh. well, I found someone *else*'s sock... [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:38:42] loicmarteau: :D [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:38:49] mark them as duplicates :PPP [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:38:53] Join ThomasZ has joined this channel (n=zander@kde/zander). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:39:14] quick question; is krunner NOT being always-on-top a bug or a feature? ;) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:41:54] Join mib_it has joined this channel (i=574f1c6c@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-1ed964cc1e764bf2). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:42:37] Topic aseigo sets the channel topic to "Devel wiki @ http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/Plasma :: review board: http://reviewboard.vidsolbach.de". [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:43:28] * ThomasZ notices with focus-follows-mouse and autoraise that the resizing krunner makes it dissapear behind other windows every now and then. I'm considering adding a kwin rule locally, but I thought I'd check... [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:44:32] ThomasZ: when I used focus-follows-mouse I found I needed a fairly long autoraise delay to avoid losing small windows [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:45:51] aseigo:minor thing with the changelog you maid with double sized icons, the problem was not only with double sized icons but with all non default size select in systemconfig [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:45:57] -maid +made [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:46:18] Chani: hmm, a kwin rule seems to not fix my problem. Seems that the bug really is indeed this policy :) You are right. [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:46:29] (problem between screen and chair) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:46:30] its why i ask if it have to be backported [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:46:40] -i as +i have asked [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:47:08] Join bobesponja has joined this channel (n=bobespon@190.42.9.148). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:47:52] the problem is not than the icon are not resized but than the handle doesnt have the correct size for the icon... [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:50:50] Quit onestone has left this server (Remote closed the connection). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:54:00] * Chani finds the magic git->reviewboard patch formatty script [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:54:14] er wait. that doesn't solve my problem [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:54:18] that just gets me a patrch [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:54:25] it doesn't ghet post-review-plasma to work [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:54:31] * Chani sighs [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:54:53] I wondfer if I can make post-review-plasma use that script... [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:57:17] Quit Typosu has left this server (Connection timed out). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:57:27] Quit henriknj has left this server (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [20:57:53] Join _mika has joined this channel (n=mika@81-208-31-218.ip.fastwebnet.it). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [21:00:20] Join milliams has joined this channel (n=mattwill@87-127-234-98.no-dns-yet.enta.net). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [21:03:40] Join mikkoc has joined this channel (n=mikko@host215-87-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it). [Sun Jul 20 2008] [21:04:10] loicmarteau: feel free to change the log entry =) [Sun Jul 20 2008] [21:04:24] loicmarteau: and again, i don't think it's a wide spread enough problem to warrant a back port [Sun Jul 20 2008] [21:04:37] loicmarteau: there's a reason development happens in trunk/ and not in branch/.. there's always the next release [Sun Jul 20 2008] [21:04:40] ok.. shower [Sun Jul 20 2008] [21:04:43] * aseigo will bbiaw [Sun Jul 20 2008] [21:05:02] aseigo: no problem i just want to be sure than you have the correct fact :)